I will sing, dance, write poetry and even fight if necessary

Conversation with Shahidul Alam, Bangladeshi photojournalist, whose works are exhibited at the MOMA, the Pompidou Centre and the Tate Modern, master of an entire conscious generation of Asian photojournalists, protagonist in recent days at the MAO in Turin of “Cone of shadow”, a debate on art and censorship.

There is a photo of you on your way out of prison (editor’s note: in 2018, torture and 107 prison days for opposition to the regime) in which you brandish your camera as the soldier picks up his rifle and shoots in the air for the joy of victory. Before being a photographer, you like to call yourself a political activist. For you, art is just a tool, a tool more powerful than others. But what are the limits of the power of this gaze?

Art is powerful, but it does not operate in a vacuum. Market forces tend to establish the value of art, and along with it, its circulation and level of engagement. Mainstream media, ‘experts’, and art critics validate art. Hollywood and Bollywood create heroes. They also shape our perceptions of art. It is not sufficient to produce ‘great’ art however one might define it, but to ensure it has impact. The fact that we had around 400,000 people visit our exhibition on the fall of President Ershad in three and a half days, is in many ways more significant than the quality of the compositions or the nature of the prints on the wall. It is the level of engagement that limits the power of the gaze, not some arbitrary ‘intrinsic’ merit.

How much does the emotional power of a photo, rather than its ability to document, succeed in turning it into the only possible point of view?

Emotions too are subject to the same forces. We are trained to believe some lives are worth more than others. We grieve more, rejoice more, and justify our actions more, based on those value systems. Was the Alan Kurdi image more powerful, more emotive than the thousands of other more horrific and better ‘constructed’ images? Nilüfer Demer’s photographs, shared by Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch on social media, went viral almost instantly. The counter propaganda that we see today, had not been mobilised in the same manner. The industrial arms complex had not united to suppress the story in the same manner. Meta and X (then Twitter) had not mobilised their resources to present a single narrative the way they are doing now. Mohammed Salem’s image of Inas Abu Maamar cradling the body of five-year-old Saly was arguably more emotive and had a more powerful message. It also went on to win the World Press Photo of the year in 2024, but it is drowned in a deluge of western propaganda that celebrates the release of Israeli hostages with far greater zeal. The production of the artwork is only a tiny part of the role of the artist, though it remains an important role. How one positions oneself as an artist, how the emotional content of art is propagated, is in many ways more significant.

Munem Wasif called your photos “a bit boring”, but said that “through the boredom” they brought different ideas. Does this phrase make sense? And how does it fit in/match with your sentence. ‘Photography is a reciprocal event’?

What excites one and what one gets bored by is largely shaped by the consumer training one gets. I am unmoved by supermodels on catwalks, yet they clearly excite millions across the globe. I am more interested in challenging the parameters that define what constitutes boredom. It would be naive not to accept that those parameters exist. If by being ‘boring’ I am able to infiltrate the spaces I want to reach, that boredom for me is exciting. If ‘exciting’ images require one to conform to the status quo that defines excitement, then I see no point in becoming an artist. The reciprocity of photography I refer to involves the response of the subject and the audience. It is that chemistry that excites me.

Did what happened in Germany regarding the Biennual (editor’s note: the German Biennial of Contemporary Photography 2024, which he had been preparing for a year as curator, examining the work of photographers from all over the world, was cancelled because he refused to correct his course in his comments on Gaza) take you by surprise?

It did somewhat, since my position as a human rights defender and a champion of the Palestinian cause was well known and they approached me knowingly, assuming they had done some research before inviting me. If they were seeking a radical non european curator, surely they wanted something different. I hadn’t counted on being a token darkie to fill some inclusion tick box. I myself was more concerned with BASF being a key sponsor. As it turned out, they were more at ease with the holocaust connection, than they were with preventing the ongoing genocide. On November 3rd 2023, they had written to say “We all agree that we want to show the Biennale because, as pointed out last week, we very much appreciate your curatorial work. We will backing you as curatorial team as far as it is within our possibilities and power and looking forward to a very interesting biennual!” but later retracted their decision stating that the Mayor of Mannheim had objected to the biennale going ahead with me as one of the curators. The irony of them practicing censorship while presenting themselves as champions of free speech is not lost on anyone.

I don’t know if there was that meeting on censorship and art in Turin anymore, if so, what did you say or what would you have said about the “Cone of shadow”?

Sadly, Zeina Arida, director of Mathaf: Arab Museum of Modern Art, could not be present in Turin, but Yasmine Eid Sabbagh, Davide Quadrio and I had a lively conversation with very active participation from the audience. Our discussion began with Tolstoy’s quote “I Sit On A Man’s Back, Choking Him And Making Him Carry Me, And Yet Assure Myself And Others That I Am Very Sorry For Him And Wish To Ease His Lot By All Possible Means – Except By Getting Off His Back.” It seemed very appropriate for the current Western narrative of being champions of freedom and democracy, while perpetuating global oppression. We talked of what Western media chooses to see and show, and the sheer hypocrisy when it comes to human rights in Palestine. Of the ridiculousness of the world’s largest weapons manufacturers making up the UN security council and thereby being the protectors of peace.

How different is the gaze of the West compared to yours and your colleagues?

Stuart Hall had an expression ‘A black man with a black camera will not necessarily take black photographs’. The West is too much of a generalisation and there are people in the West and the East and the South and the North, who are just, and passionate and liberated in there minds, as indeed there are people in the Majority and the Minority World who have failed to live up to what is expected of them. While I recognise the historical actions of the West and of colonial settlers, I am aware that there are many in the West who question colonialism and zionism and I am happy to embrace them and their gaze.

A problem on the agenda in Europe and that is perhaps becoming urgent here in Italy:
What defines a democracy today?

I see democracy as a system where the governed have a say in the process of governance. There are many ways through which societies have attempted to reach that power balance. One person one vote, is one of those ways, but it requires an informed public which is free to exercise its right. Being informed requires having control over that information flow and being able to vote freely requires control over one’s actions. Both these controls are generally in the hands of the powerful, so democracy in that sense does not exist anywhere. We tend to give more emphasis on the individuals who represent these polities, than on whether the process of their evolution and the mechanisms through which they are chosen are democratic or not.

How the Cyber Security Act in your country is emblematic of the camouflaged instruments of power censorship?

A vague catch all law that depends on the interpretation by the ruling elite for enforcement is no law at all. There is not much camouflage here. Nor is it needed. It is clear to the Bangladeshi public that this law has been engineered to perpetuate their unjust rule. Since the ruling elite no longer requires the vote of the people, they do not require camouflage either. Their power stems from brute force. The only reason they require the veneer of laws is because they lack legitimacy. The Cyber Security Act performs that function.

There is a character and a famous sentence in Italian literature, a country parish priest who does not dare oppose the power of the seventeenth-century lords and says: if one does not have courage, one cannot give courage to oneself. How pessimistic are you about the huge mass of people who live their lives in the comfort zone and cannot give themselves courage?

It is true that fear is contagious, but so is courage, and while I am disappointed by what world leaders are doing, their actions are not entirely unexpected. They largely lack legitimacy as except perhaps in Israel and Germany (and even here the government faces opposition) the actions of the leaders do not reflect the sentiment of the public. I am encouraged by the action of the youth, especially students on campus. It is the new Vietnam and hopefully the term ‘Never Again’ will no longer be selectively applied. We have also developed tools that can help people overcome their fear. While people are scared to join a march or participate in a protest, they may still join in other ways. So we’ve developed a series of low cost merchandise for everyday use, such as T shirts, mugs, coasters, note books, tote bags, etc., which carry a message. Messages that question war, colonialism, gender and ethnic prejudice. There are also some with specific messages that relate to rape or border killing, which are linked to instances where justice has failed. While people are still fearful, using these tools as means of protest, has allowed people to come on board. The greatest tool in the hands of an artist is creativity and we must be inventive in finding ways to resist.

Art in the service of something or art that comes from something: what is the criterion for your choice to photograph in black and white?

I will work with whatever tools available and use whatever means necessary. I will photograph in black and white or colour or choose a different medium altogether if needed. I will sing, dance, write poetry and even fight if necessary, though I am an avowed pacifist. Yes, I will use black and white when I consider it to be the most effective means, but I am neither married to photography, nor to black and white, and will have no hesitation in discarding either if I find it to be ineffective.